Michael Greenberg talks about monetization, production, growth, and advertising for course creators, coaches, and consultants with Chris Badgett on the LMScast.
Chris Badgett 0:00
You’ve come to the right place if you’re a course creator looking to build more impact, income, and freedom. LMScast is the number one podcast for course creators, just like you. I’m your guide, Chris Badgett. I’m the co-founder of the most powerful tool for building, selling and protecting, engaging online courses called LifterLMS. Enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of LMScast. My name is Chris Padgett, and we’re joined by a special guest, Michael Greenberg. He’s from Call For Content. Michael reached out to me, and I had a wonderful conversation with him. I can’t wait to introduce you to the course building community because there’s a lot of people in this audience here building courses, building membership sites. Who is looking to monetize, looking to grow, looking to scale, and just in talking about what you’ve been up to with podcasting, ebooks, authority marketing, all these things, is very helpful for a course creator or membership site owner to kind of grow, and package things up? But the thing that really fascinated me about you was, you’re not just kind of talking about these ideas: you need a podcast, you should have an ebook. You have playbooks and specific strategies and services and people can talk to you on the phone. Go to callforcontent.com, you can schedule office hours and have a conversation to see if you might be a good fit for Michael, and how he can help you. But first, Michael, welcome to the show.
Michael Greenberg 1:42
Thanks, Chris. It’s great to be here.
Chris Badgett 1:45
Awesome! Well, let’s just get into it. One of the biggest course creator problems that we talked about is you have to be a lot of people at once. You have to be an expert, a teacher, a community builder, a technologist, and entrepreneur. And on that what we put on the entrepreneur hat. Somebody who’s an expert at something, maybe they’re a good coach or teacher, but they don’t necessarily have training in marketing, prospecting, building an email list, a strategy for getting people familiar with them before they offer, usually if it includes coaching an expensive training program. But that’s where you come in. Let’s talk about your playbooks. If we start with authority marketing, there’s a lot of talks these days about authority marketing and influencer marketing. What does all this mean? And what’s your angle? What would you advise course creators to do?
Michael Greenberg 2:46
Yeah, so I guess my angle is: don’t worry about doing a lot of the marketing stuff until you actually get your positioning right. The authority marketing playbook is mostly about customer research and positioning, it’s the first thing we do when we bring on a client.
Chris Badgett 3:07
So it’s who we are serving? And how are we perceived in that to them?
Michael Greenberg 3:14
Exactly. Because authority really is only about the relationship between you and that small market of customers that fit perfectly who you’re trying to sell to.
Chris Badgett 3:27
I love it. So let’s say if we look at the three mega niches in course creation that’s health, wealth, and relationships. Most programs fall under one of these sub-niches. Can you pick one niche and I’ll give you an example. What do you want to talk about wealth, health, or relationships?
Michael Greenberg 3:56
I think wealth is probably the one that I have the best understanding of.
Chris Badgett 4:03
Okay, I’ve seen people using our software LifterLMS delivering real estate investing programs.They develop a unique style of selling or in a particular segment of real estate, and they help other people become real estate investors. How would you help that person if somebody comes at you, and they want to focus on real estate investing? How would you help them clarify their target market or do market research?
Michael Greenberg 4:34
Yeah, so the first thing I do is have them introduce me to the people they’ve already helped do this.
Chris Badgett 4:43
So no BS. We’re making sure that you can back up what you’re saying you want to do.
Michael Greenberg 4:51
.Chris Badgett 4:53
I love that
Michael Greenberg 4:56
And real estate comes close to home for me. My dad is a real estate guy. And actually, I’m getting ready to help him put out a course. But he has a brokerage and he’s been helping people sell real estate and is an investor himself and has been for 40 years. His course is about distilling that knowledge. When it comes to authority there are two parts, there’s perception outwardly, and you can affect that very easily.
Chris Badgett 5:32
What do you mean by that?
Michael Greenberg 5:34
I mean, you can put lipstick on a pig.
Chris Badgett 5:38
Okay, I can put a suit on and get a nice video production.
Michael Greenberg 5:46
Yeah, hire somebody to script it. and do the whole thing and that works. That’ll get you lead flow. But that won’t get you any sort of retention because you won’t really know what you’re talking about.
Chris Badgett 6:03
It’s all about lifetime value. If you’re going to go to the trouble to create a high-value program or even a recurring revenue membership month over month, retention is the name of the game.
Michael Greenberg 6:15
Yeah. And that’s why the guys in wealth that I’ve seen be the most successful a lot of times are ones who started blogging about it while they were doing it. And then afterward, maybe they converted to something else.
Chris Badgett 6:34
So their journey has a track record?
Michael Greenberg 6:35
Chris Badgett 6:37
Yeah. I wonder why that happens in this world. It’s pretty common, I think in an internet business or internet marketing where someone wants to learn those skills, and then they want to go teach them, but they haven’t actually done that much of it themselves. But like your dad, you mentioned he’s got 40 years in the industry. So in my five hats paradigm that I talked about, we talked about the expert hat. Your dad’s been wearing that hat for 40 years. He’s got that one covered.
Michael Greenberg 7:05
Yeah, and his family did it before him.
Chris Badgett 7:09
So it’s generational. Well, that’s even better. A lot of people can’t necessarily have the generational backups knowing how much people change careers these days. But that’s awesome.
Michael Greenberg 7:20
Yeah, in digital generational doesn’t happen.
Chris Badgett 7:26
Just being around for five years, that’s almost like the new generational. Using your dad as an example. He’s got the street cred, the 40 years. What else is important for positioning beside the actual experience with those real customers for that?
Michael Greenberg 7:47
Yeah, his experience is also geographic. And in real estate, this is a big one that I think a lot of people skip over. He deals with St. Louis, Missouri and the surrounding area both sides of the river. But that’s it. In real estate, the licensing is separate on a state by state basis, the laws are separate on a state by state basis. He can’t do business in California. So he can help with this one market and getting even more specific, multifamily commercial investment properties.
Chris Badgett 8:28
Now that’s specific,
Michael Greenberg 8:30
Right. And so that’s it. Now we know, they’re looking in a single area. They’re looking to invest in a single type of property. And that means you now need a certain amount of money to invest. You now need to, therefore, be at a certain stage in your life or career. And you need to know that multifamily is the right option for you. Because that’s part of a diversified Real Estate portfolio, but the way you rent an apartment unit is very different from a commercial lease for office space, or a strip mall, something like that. Or just a single house.
Chris Badgett 9:12
That’s awesome. I love that because it’s such a good example of looking at a mega niche like wealth. And then you go down into the real estate category, and then you go down into a location, and then you go down into a type of property. And then you go down until a customer at a certain stage of life that can play in this arena. So specific.I love it.
Michael Greenberg 9:36
Yeah, that’s like 10,000 people specific.
Chris Badgett 9:39
Yeah. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Ryan Levesque, I’m talking to him later today. He has a new book out called Choose, and this is about how to choose a market. He talks about how the market needs to have certain characteristics to be worth it. Is it not scary that there are only 10,000 people or is it because the transaction amount is so high that that’s fine? But 10 000 people where the transaction amount is low? That’s not a lot of people, right?
Michael Greenberg 10:21
But 10,000 people, if a minimum transaction in the mid-five figures and the lifetime value of a customer is in the sixes, that’s not an issue any longer. That’s okay, we get a dozen new customers. And this could be a life-changing event. A lot of the people that I work with, I try to get them to move upstream. Because if we can sell that 10 and $50,000 engagement, then we might only need to sell five or 10 of those.
Chris Badgett 11:02
Cool. So if we’ve done our market research, what’s next? And we’ve got our positioning figured out, what’s next in the authority marketing playbook? Where do we go from here?
Michael Greenberg 11:16
Partnerships. Getting your name out there partnering to create webinars, or creating a podcast and having people on. The real goal is just creating content with other people in the space and spaces adjacent to the market you’d like to serve.
Chris Badgett 11:40
Awesome. Anything else before we go to another playbook that you’d like to mention about authority marketing?
Michael Greenberg 11:48
We do a bunch of other stuff with ads, but that’s a lot more complicated.
Chris Badgett 11:55
Do you do ads from day one, or where does that come in?
Michael Greenberg 11:59
So it depends on the market. If we’re on LinkedIn, then our ad campaigns are pretty short, but they’re concentrated. And so the spend looks different there. If we’re working with Facebook or Instagram, something like that, then we’re going to do ads based on the content we’re putting out. And it’s likely not day one, it’s probably like day 91.
Chris Badgett 12:26
Gotcha. Very cool. You talk about ebooks, which is really interesting to me. And I think one of the problems or just challenges for course creators, especially if they have a high ticket course or training program or consulting package coaching program, is that they need to do some lead generation. They need some lead magnets and stuff like that, and ebooks were all the rage, 10 years ago. I’m one of these people who still think they work. Some people say email is dead but I use email all the time and it works great, or chat doesn’t work, but it works for me. I don’t know. So even though it’s an old strategy, what’s your take on ebooks?
Michael Greenberg 13:14
I like them. I like to make sure my ebooks are useful. And I like to make sure that most people aren’t going to read them.
Chris Badgett 13:23
You want to make sure they don’t?
Michael Greenberg 13:25
Yeah, because if an ebook is useful, in my opinion, it goes pretty in-depth and in-depth might get a little boring at times
Chris Badgett 13:35
For the wrong market.
Michael Greenberg 13:36
Right? And so I expect most people to skim the ebook that they download one time. And by skim, I mean, just read the headings. And maybe 10% of those people are actually going to go in and read it. But if that 10 % of people are the people I want, then that ebook has done its job well.
Chris Badgett 13:57
So the 10% of the 10,000 People in that target market that’s still 1000 people that are highly targeted.
Michael Greenberg 14:06
Yeah, and 1000 is just barely enough to do a custom audience retargeting.
Chris Badgett 14:13
Can you explain what that means to the uninitiated?
Michael Greenberg 14:16
So you can set up a custom audience based on a list of emails you collect in pretty much all of your major ad targeting platforms. I know Facebook can do it. I know LinkedIn can do it. Those are my two big ones. And then you can just run ads to that market. So I can just run ads to the people who have downloaded the ebook. I have some call to action at the end of the ebook. Click this link and do anything. Literally, just click this link. Then we can pass on a pixel saying, they also clicked this link at the end. They have some interest in whatever the next step is because they at least skim the headings. And those are people that I might reach out to, might send them an email or call them. I like phones. I know. It’s weird.
Chris Badgett 15:28
We have a phone number on our website. I don’t like this question as a course career. People asked me how many hours the lesson should be. But in your opinion, is there an answer to how long should the ebook be? Or what should you go for?
Michael Greenberg 15:47
It really depends on how long you’re going to use it. So some ebooks are a plan for us with what we call a tentpole strategy, which is when we plan to build an ebook from multiple blogs or podcasts. Some posts are put out over a period of time, and we repurpose that content and the feedback we get from the audience into the ebook that then gets released on that topic.
Chris Badgett 16:12
That’s cool. Do you plan that out even before you record all those podcasts?
Michael Greenberg 16:18
Oh yeah. Strategy is a big part of what we do. That’s what you’re buying from an agency like ours. Its strategy and expertise in any professional service. It’s why we publish these playbooks. Most of this is literally what we do.
Chris Badgett 16:40
Yeah. Eat your own dog food as we like to say.
Michael Greenberg 16:43
Chris Badgett 16:45
Cool. I wanted to ask you a question while we’re talking about positioning and perception and relate to this. Do names matter? Some people call an ebook a guide or an ultimate guide. Some people call a webinar, a webinar or a workshop or a master class. Some people call a course one thing, or they call it free training or three-part series. How important is naming?
Michael Greenberg 17:15
Pretty important. If you have done your customer research. If you’ve spoken with your customers, they’re using a specific term. And different segments of your audience may be using different terms. And you really would like to use the term they’re using, because that will increase your conversion rate if they want master classes if that’s what they’re looking for. Give them a master class. Don’t give them a webinar. I cannot stress that enough. Internally, we call them all pretty much the same thing. But we don’t do that externally. Not as a copy.
Chris Badgett 18:02
Cool. Well, I haven’t stumped you yet. So I’m going to go to the podcast playbook. And what really intrigued me talking to you before we hit record here was you started talking about audio courses. I mean, podcasts are not audio courses. Podcasts or like a show or episodic content free content usually. And this audience here makes courses, and everybody’s talking about how video is eating the internet and like 80% of internet traffic and, 2025 is going to be online video, but the audio is still just killer. I mean, it’s one of those things that there’s this concept of portable content and there’s so much competition for video, but when you are washing the dishes or going for a run or driving, not looking at a screen, there’s music, radio shows, audiobooks. And it’s not that crowded the way video and your screens are. So let’s just open up a conversation around why podcasting? And why audio courses? Why are you interested in those?
Michael Greenberg 19:21
So I think they’re really powerful. I think that a video course is good. But an audio course is going to more deeply ingrain you into the listener than a video course will.
Chris Badgett 19:43
And I have to ask you a question here. Are we talking about audio courses as the product or part of the paid product? Are we talking about lead generation or both?
Michael Greenberg 19:55
I’ve seen them use both ways successfully. I think Can’t say one’s better than the other at this point. But when somebody is doing that physical task, everything’s now concentrated on you there.
Chris Badgett 20:17
Because I am not paying attention to washing the dishes because I am fully immersed in what is going into my earbuds, right?
Michael Greenberg 20:23
Exactly. Because that’s really how our body processes. Most of those tasks that people are listening to audio content on are the physical ones that have been deeply ingrained in us. Because we can split the concentration like that. And with video, I know video takes a lot more bandwidth. So it’s always going to take an outsized chunk of the market, and I get it a lot of people are watching things on their phones. But video content really, most of the time, is a short form. And a lot of the video content that is long-form gets put in the background and played as audio. YouTube is the first or second biggest audio streaming platform?
Chris Badgett 21:24
Right for songs?
Michael Greenberg 21:25
Chris Badgett 21:27
Or like a Joe Rogan podcast, which he does long-form two and a half hour shows and stuff like that, it is on YouTube, but I don’t know who actually sits there and watches a video of two people talking in a studio for two and a half hours. I mean, they’re just you’re right, it’s the background.
Michael Greenberg 21:44
Yeah. And so I think some of the video numbers are inflated, I guess is what I’m getting at because a lot of video gets used as audio. And we do a lot of things where somebody is just a speaker and they’re recording video and working and repurpose. That is audio.
Chris Badgett 22:05
If I’m a course creator, and I’m going to start a podcast, or I’m going to be a guest on podcasts. What is the podcast playbook that you recommend to generate more leads and sales?
Michael Greenberg 22:17
Yeah, so the podcast playbook that I really enjoy is called The Authority Builder show. It’s in the B2B podcast playbook.
Chris Badgett 22:30
The Authority Builder show is a concept, or is it an actual show?
Michael Greenberg 22:34
It’s a show concept, for positioning a show in the market. And it’s based around positioning the show as interviews with a target audience that makes up potential partners for your organization, as well as potential prospects. High-value prospects. So ideally, if you have a prospect where their lifetime values in that 15, 20,000 or more range, that’s who you want to target. And if you don’t really have those people, if you’re mainly focused on selling the course not selling services after the course for a higher ticket and that course is in the three, you know, three-figure range, then you’re probably going to want to focus on partnerships with a show like this. And focus on getting the best interviews you can. The goal of the show is to prove your authority to the audience by interviewing people who line up with what they respect in the market you’re trying to position yourself into. So you really need to do the authority marketing playbook before you do the B2B podcast playbook or build out that authority builder show, but In the B2B podcast playbook, we put an abbreviated version of the same stuff from the authority marketing playbook.
Chris Badgett 24:07
I gotcha. And these are on your website callforcontent.com. I want to talk a little bit about partnerships. Some people get hung up on “well, what am I supposed to do? Just go interview my competitors?” Why would they do that?. How do we think about either potentially working with our direct competitors or with tangential, just in our industry people, how do we get organized around partnerships and create a list of people to go after?
Michael Greenberg 24:43
So if you do your homework, if you do the research, then you know who your customers respect? And you know, who they look at in the market already. So those are the first people you’d want to go to
Chris Badgett 25:01
So get it from customers don’t go to Google first go to your existing audience.
Michael Greenberg 25:08
Yeah, those are the best people to sell to the people who are already listening to you. Getting an audience is a lot harder. So if you’ve got an audience already, use that audience and try to find more of that audience and focus on the people who already make good clients and good customers.
Chris Badgett 25:31
Awesome. And while we’re on this audio note, I know it’s a question that I personally don’t like, but I’m going to ask you something. How long should the audio course be? How long should the lessons be? Or should it be kind of dripped out over time? Or how do we make a good audio-only course?
Michael Greenberg 25:51
Yeah, so the first thing to look at is how much time your customers have.
Chris Badgett 25:56
I love where you’re going with this because some people asked me how long should my video be on? I’m thinking about me. Personally, I’ll follow a six-hour web tutorial that’s all one video to learn how to build a website from scratch as an example. I’ll listen to a two and a half-hour podcast episode about entrepreneurship. But I’ll listen to like a 20-minute episode about something else. How do we figure this out?
Michael Greenberg 26:24
Yeah, so looking at the content, first off, and figuring out what it all looks like together. So we do an audio course, we’re trying out an audio course plus ebook right now.
Chris Badgett 26:39
When you say audio course plus ebook, what does the plus mean? Like they’re in a combined lead magnet kind of thing? Or what do you mean by that?
Michael Greenberg 26:46
Yeah. So they’re going to be a product, but they’re going to be combined. So here is the written part, and here’s some work that goes along with it. But then here’s also companion Audio.
Chris Badgett 27:01
Oh, I love that because I have this concept I teach a lot called Course Plus and that’s course plus coaching plus mastermind plus group coaching plus productize service. It’s not just about the course like you said, you can do a three-figure course. But when you start adding to the stack, that you start creating something more integrated and more valuable, and you know, kind of surrounds the prospect or the customer with more resources. I love that idea of the court, the audio course plus ebook that sounds cool and also not overwhelming to create. Because sometimes people get into:” why I gotta do a course and then I got to do a video course and then do like a private one on one coaching. I need to open up my calendar and then I need to do an upsell, a $20,000 mastermind retreat in Tahiti”. We’re just slow down, audio-only, and ebook. That sounds pretty doable.
Michael Greenberg 28:01
Yeah. I would start with the one on one high ticket item.
Chris Badgett 28:09
Yeah. So coaching or service.
Michael Greenberg 28:13
Yeah, that is 100% where I’d start. And then I would build the course out of that experience.
Chris Badgett 28:24
I love that idea because I think a lot of people tried to start the course. But when you do the high touch service or coaching, I don’t want to say this in the wrong way. But you kind of earned the right to figure out what works, and then you can start automating that through course content. You really have to go through the hard yards of one on one transformation and result in delivery with individual people in your target market, if you’re going to make a great course you have to have done that other thing first, right?
Michael Greenberg 29:00
Yeah, you need that expertise? Because otherwise, you can take a course before then.
Chris Badgett 29:07
Michael Greenberg 29:09
And people might use it. Some people might even get results, but you’ll have no idea why.
Chris Badgett 29:17
Michael Greenberg 29:19
And that’s a more difficult process in my mind to go through.
Chris Badgett 29:25
Very cool. Can you tell us some of your stories like, how did you develop this expertise and skillset and focus in your business on what we’ve talked about here today?
Michael Greenberg 29:36
Yeah, so I actually started out in software development. I was an economics major in school. And then, I joined a startup and managed some technical teams. And through that, I learned a bunch about startup marketing. Now it is man, I like marketing. I like operations. I don’t really like the software stuff as much. So I’m going to take that technical knowledge and become a technical marketer. And at the same time, I started doing some B2B growth strategy consulting. And that’s when I saw a lot of overlap between some of these areas. I started working with a podcasting network as one of my clients. That’s when I learned about audio and podcasting. And then, from there, I decided to start Call For Content as sort of a playground for myself. And over time, it’s morphed into these very specific lines of sort of combination. Okay, here’s a strategy that we do. We customize that strategy for you. But it’s still very similar to a strategy. And that means that we can offer our services in these sorts of productized ways. They built that out of looking at the consultant work I was doing into this. Over time that turned out to be good for coaches and consultants. So we got into that market, among others.
Chris Badgett 31:12
So that’s what I was going to ask. Who is the ideal person you work with now, like coaches and consultants? Is that what you’re saying?
Michael Greenberg 31:18
Yeah, so we work with coaches and consultants. We work with podcasters now. Through our podcast relations program, we will help you find and place guests for free. And then we also offer like some commission-only sponsorship deals, and an audience audits for people who want a sort of getting evaluation set before they go out and try that sort of stuff.
Chris Badgett 31:46
What was that evaluation set? What does that?
Michael Greenberg 31:48
We call it an audience audit. We take a look at your audience and the demographics. If you’ve done any sort of prior affiliate or sponsorship deals, we look at the revenue that’s coming through those, or the prior experiences. And we use that information to develop an actual valuation on the person’s audience or on the company’s current audience. So that they can either go out and get sponsorship, or negotiate more revenue share partnership deals, that sort of thing themselves, or for us to then work with them as a person who goes out and finds sponsorship on their behalf.
Chris Badgett 32:31
Very cool. And at the bottom of your website, you have scheduled office hours, what goes down and one of those,
Michael Greenberg 32:38
It’s about 30 minutes of one on one, me and whoever I’m talking to. It’s recorded. And so that way I can use it to create content later. I like to review the sessions, see what people have been asking me, and then use that to inform what we do going forward. If it’s somebody who’s trying to figure out where to go through the playbooks or where to get started with their business or with their content, then that’s what we talk about. If it’s somebody who’s looked at our services, or heard about them and wants to see if we’re a good fit, then we’ll talk about that. And if it’s somebody who wants to talk about, like bread-making or cooking, or just chew the fat with me for 30 minutes, then we’ll do that too.
Chris Badgett 33:32
Awesome. Cool. Well, Michael Greenberg, thank you so much for coming on the show. I want to ask you one final question before we sign off here. If you take your body of knowledge, and you go down into a beginner’s mind of a coach or consultant, who has earned their stripes in whatever skill set or industry they have their experience in and they’re wanting to scale-up and go online, where’s the first step on the growth side? What should they do?
Michael Greenberg 34:13
Create a course. And then build a website, actually create the course and sell the course to some people who know you. Validate it, and then create a website to sell that course online.
Chris Badgett 34:31
Nice. I like that. And then and then they can get into the partnerships and the authority marketing and scaling, right?
Michael Greenberg 34:42
Yeah, though, I’d probably start by reading the authority marketing playbook and do that research and figure out what kind, of course, people want you to make.
Chris Badgett 34:52
I want to ask a bonus question because you just picked my brain on it, which is what is the classic mistake that people make when they don’t do that market research or figure out the who and the positioning. What are some common just missteps you see people make with that?
Michael Greenberg 35:13
Yeah, so the biggest one is making assumptions. Because what ends up happening is you don’t know how little they actually know. And you skip over a lot of stuff. And you don’t realize oh wow my initial course is so simple. It’s like the stuff that I learned 30 years ago, or that if you’re in digital, you learned four years ago. And it’s that stuff that you need to teach somebody before you can do anything else. And so that might be your first mini ebook or course that you put out. And that the high ticket stuff for the people who actually know enough to understand the value of your high ticket that you’ve met one or two of them. And there’s a small market there. A lot of people assume they have a big market, but they don’t because there are personality issues that come into play, especially with courses. I can hire somebody to rip off your course and just take all the content and speak it again. And if that person delivers it differently and looks different than you do, or sounds different than you do, they could get a totally different audience as a result. And so you really have to know exactly who you’re going after and what they’re looking for. And if you spend the time doing that, then you’ll do really well.
Chris Badgett 36:49
And the last question, what’s your definition of a high ticket?
Michael Greenberg 36:53
So a high ticket depends on the market. It depends on the market in B2B. Ticket starts at maybe 10 or 15,000. If you’re selling to consumers, high ticket depending on your audience, I know life coaches where their high ticket starts in the four or 5000 range, and they’re selling to, you know, your successful millennial or successful gen Xer, and goes up from there. But on the mid ticket in their initial offering is right in the $300 range. And so I guess that’s the higher end of the market overall. I don’t like selling things for $10 things. It’s really hard.
Chris Badgett 37:44
That makes sense. Michael Greenberg, callforcontent.com. What should people do when they come to your website,
Michael Greenberg 37:51
Schedule office hours. Check out the ebooks and then check out the playbooks and then schedule office hours or just schedule office hours, and we’ll talk, and I’ll direct you to some, and then we can go from there. It’s up to you.
Chris Badgett 38:07
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. We’ll have to do this again sometime. That was a lot of fun and a ton of value. I really appreciate it.
Michael Greenberg 38:15
Chris Badgett 38:16
And that’s a wrap for this episode of LMScast. I’m your guide, Chris Badgett. I hope you enjoyed the show. This show was brought to you by LifterLMS, the number one tool for creating, selling and protecting engaging online courses to help you get more revenue, freedom, and impact in your life. Head on over to LifterLMS.com and get the best gear for your course creator journey. Let’s build the most engaging results in getting courses on the internet.