Influential Entrepreneurs with Mike Saunders, MBA

Michael Greenberg talks about audio as content and how it affects Google ranks with Mike Saunders on the Influential Entrepreneurs Podcast.

Mike Saunders  0:00  

Hello, and welcome to this episode of influential entrepreneurs. This is Mike Saunders, the authority positioning coach. And today, we have with us Michael Greenberg, who is the founder of Gentlemen Of Technology and Call For Content. Michael, welcome to the program. 

Michael Greenberg  0:31  

Mike, it’s great to be here today. Always happy to talk with a fellow Colorado entrepreneur. 

Mike Saunders  0:36  

 I know right before the show, we’re talking about, where are you calling in from? And it’s just down the street. So it’s just a small world, and it’s really awesome to have that Colorado connection. It’s interesting when I was introducing your company Call For Content, it made me think of something. I want to ask your opinion, do you remember about 7, 8, 9 years ago, where content Marketing was the buzzword, and it was a thing. And I’ve heard some reports and podcasts recently in the last few months where content marketing is no longer a thing because content marketing has become so vital to marketing that it’s just marketing. So before it was like this new fangled way to do your marketing and let’s call it something now, it’s like you better structure your marketing to be a teaching and education base. Have you heard that type of thing as well?

Michael Greenberg  1:31  

No, I definitely see where people are coming from with that. But content marketing wasn’t new when content marketing was new. It was a new buzzword to describe the same concept. 

Mike Saunders  1:44  

There was just nobody doing it. 

Michael Greenberg  1:47  

Yeah. And in B2B, yes, you need content as part of your mix. Unless you’re that small business that’s really just doing sales and you’ve got your sales guy with his list who’s been working that same list for 30 years. The content might not help him. I think I understand what people are saying, Yes, consumers want less advertising. But they have the best ads that have always been great content. And I still get entertained by the ads that Ogilvy wrote, you know, 80 years ago. And I want to read those ads. And so content marketing to me seems like more of the same.  

Mike Saunders  2:39  

Important, and you’re exactly right. And it’s the freshness it’s the concept of how else can someone realize that you know what you’re talking about. You can’t get that from an ad.

So that content is what props you up. So with your background, I’m sure we can go through a whole lead up to the launching of your firm, but what led you into ending up with podcasting? What’s so special about providing podcasting as a service to your clients?

Michael Greenberg  3:09  

 So Call For Content is a podcasting agency. We moved from being a B2B content marketing agency that did a lot of podcasts, to being a podcasting agency. Little over six months ago now. And that happened when I launched a white-label podcast production and marketing offers to other agencies and podcast producers. People said: this is exactly what we need. We want to do the editing. We don’t want to do the other stuff. And from there, once the kindling started to burn, we poured some gasoline on it and went full out as a podcasting agency. 

Mike Saunders  3:57  

So obviously, when you watch Shark Tank, and it’s like, what’s the need? What’s the problem? You found that. And it’s not necessarily that you stumbled on it because you were doing it anyway. It’s just that you started noticing that that was just a clamoring demand. What are some of the things you’ve seen with podcasting? Because I know that I see all the stats about videos, look at all the growth of video. But I find myself when I watch a video online, and this is not every time, so many of these players, whichever one you want to think about, but you’re watching a video. Then you think, Oh, you know what, I’m going to keep listening to this while I answer an email while I whatever. But if you leave the browser, the video stops, and it forces you to continue watching and you really need to see that when all you want to do is hear the content. So I feel that podcasting gives you that flexibility, mobility and you can put it in your pocket, your phone, whatever. What have you found that way in audio versus video content? And not downplaying video because I think you need to have that in your mix as well.

Michael Greenberg  5:00  

 So first off, I want to say the video is awesome. I personally prefer short-form video over long-form. The little players that you’re talking about. Those are really business focused players. They want to force you to watch that content for some sort of marketing purpose. If you look at YouTube. YouTube, I think I saw it, is the largest music player out there because people start playing the YouTube songs in the background, and then they can switch to another tab. So people want to use video like audio. And one thing that I’ve seen really successful for clients, especially those who are speakers, is recording the video, getting the whole speech, the whole presentation captured as normal but then ripping that audio out. And putting it as a podcast so their listeners, their audience can get it on the go. 

Mike Saunders  6:07  

You know, I want to pause on a point that you glossed over, and I want to make sure I understand it. We’ve heard for years that  YouTube is the biggest search engine out there. People go to YouTube for things. But you’re saying that YouTube is the biggest audio music device like versus iTunes? 

Michael Greenberg  6:30  

Oh, yeah. iTunes is not for listening to music for that many people anymore. Most of the younger generations are moving to Spotify, if they grew up in the era of Napster, you’re not going to want to pay for music. And that being the case, you’re just going to search for the song you want on YouTube. And it’ll play if you’re on your computer. And otherwise, you’ve got the more standard mobile options. 

Mike Saunders  7:01  

Yeah, that’s a pretty astounding fact. And then you also mentioned that you would do, like in the example video,  multi-purpose it for the video, take the audio out and use that as audio. I know that also I just wrote a Forbes article on this element in one of the articles, then you take that audio, and you transcribe it. Now you have a blog post is that another way that you maximize the content for your clients? 

Michael Greenberg  7:28  

Yeah, that’s actually how we got started with podcasting for clients. From a cost basis. It is cheaper for us to develop audio content that can be repurposed into the text content that we need, rather than starting with texts and going to audio. And so we started using an app called headliner as well, to make little videos and teasers out of the podcast that we create. And so really, we’re starting with audio. But we’re ending in video and text that we’ve created from that audio. Along those lines as well, if you haven’t seen Google finally announce that they’ve been transcribing podcasts and indexing the content for search, I think they’ve been doing it for well over a year, if not longer. I’ve seen results from posting just audio for quite a while now. But that’s really telling you that, from a computer perspective, audio and text have little differences.

Mike Saunders  8:47  

Yeah, well, if you think about this. I’ve heard a rumor that if someone was emailing someone, that they start seeing ads all over their Gmail or YouTube. “Hey, cheap flights.”  It might not even be that generic, but I’ve heard a tale that they might even say something very specific in an email, and then they start getting ads. So we know that Google listens, watches, and then matches that up for ads. That’s a really powerful point that they’re using audio content as part of their ranking factor. 

Michael Greenberg  9:28  

Yeah. And we’ve seen success with planned SEO strategies in the audio content that we put out. 

Mike Saunders  9:39  

So let’s talk about that. When you work with clients, what would be a planned strategy to say, Okay, here’s your podcast, talk. Do you ever have people say,” about what?”   I think there could be some generic episodes, but do you guide them on what they should be talking about? 

Michael Greenberg  9:59  

Oh, yeah. We guide them pretty heavily, we’ll go down so far as to pre-write all the questions for them, if that’s something that they need, and we do solo shows, as well as a lot of interview shows. And depending on the style of the show, some are easier than others to prep for. We’ve had really good success. The strongest SEO we’ve seen is with local SEO. So you’ll, wherever I live at the time, I run a show where I interview local entrepreneurs, and generally, that show ends up winning on local search. 

Mike Saunders  10:47  

Yeah. Because of two things, number one, the title of the show, which would have maybe their name the business, but also like what you’re saying with the audio content that Google is using. Not necessarily It’s going to show up online as a full transcribed episode magically. Like Google is kind of what syncing it, recognizing it, and then that’s going into one of their factors.

Michael Greenberg  11:11  

Yeah, Google will know the topics of the show. Even if you never post the transcript. 

Mike Saunders  11:18  

Wow, that’s pretty awesome/creepy.

Michael Greenberg  11:23  

Yeah,  I think it’s pretty cool. Because,  if you want free services, you’re giving something up in exchange.

Mike Saunders  11:33  

Yeah. Hey, so what do you feel when you work with a client. Did you work with typically people that are B2B? What do you feel or find that you are advising them as some of the most basic things that they need to make sure they start doing right now? Like, if you look at a client’s business initially, what are your go-to strategies that you’re, of course, podcasting, but from a strategic standpoint, what are you finding that people are doing wrong and you’re going:” Hey, we need to redirect it to go in this direction.” 

Michael Greenberg  12:04  

So a lot of clients we work with are coming to us as their content provider. And so maybe they have a blog, they’re not updating regularly. Or maybe they’ve been in business for a year, and they’ve had a static website. And now they really want to start getting out there and building authority. And so, creating content is the number one thing I see clients. I see. People come to my office hours, I probably get this two or three times a week. What kind of content should I be creating? And the honest answer is, just start talking with the people you would like to be your customers.  If you record like, this is a conversation between two people who could sell to each other right now. And it’s great content. The entire goal of creating that content is just to get people out there and knowing you. It’s to have a backup to prove that you are that expert when they come to ask you for more. And so that’s really just the simple act of creating content, is the number one thing. 

Mike Saunders  12:30  

 I want to just pause for two seconds before for money because that’s a whole different world. I want to make a point here with what you just said because I feel like I run into this, and I see this a lot out there. A lot of people, entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, B2B, whoever you want to think about that need to create content. They may say,” I’m no expert.”  But everybody has their own point of view that they bring to the game. So what do you find when you work with people that say, hey, help me with content, and you start talking about these things? They go, I’m not an expert. How do you help them realize that they do have that unique point of view?

Michael Greenberg  14:09  

I talked about a couple of things. One is when they’re considering,” am I an expert in this?” The question they should really be asking is, am I an expert in this for the audience I’d like to reach compared to them?  So I may not be an expert in business management, compared to somebody who’s been a business coach for 30 years. But I am an expert in business management compared to a bunch of MBA students. And as a podcaster, I have been podcasting for maybe three, four years, so I’m nowhere near the guys who have been doing it forever. But I’ve launched a lot of shows. And if a client is coming to me and asking Michael, can you help me grow my podcast? That’s something that I know how to do. And I talk, the content I put out is about starting shows and monetizing them. I’m not the guy to go to for your interviews. And so I use two things. One, you want to look at that narrow audience, right? And you want to know what level of expertise they have compared to you. And then two, there’s a little test we use called the talk test. And if you could put together a two, three-hour presentation on that subject for that audience. Or a full-day workshop on that subject for that audience. You’re an expert. There’s no doubt about it.

Mike Saunders  16:00  

 I’ve used it. I did a presentation for a group, just recently this week, and I heard this concept given by someone else. And I was like, oh, I’ve followed that and heard that for years and years and years. Because I think what you just said was, can you give this talk of this presentation? I think that some people would say no, but then if you ask them a few questions like this, they would all of a sudden realize, Oh, I  could do that. And I heard it just probably a decade ago, and it’s still relevant. You ask: “Hey, could you, and all of your interactions with your clients and prospects and customers, would you write down on a piece of paper 10 just basic frequently asked questions you get, and we’ll start a timer.” And they write down 10 questions, let’s say and this being hypothetical because they might want to take 30 minutes to think about it. But then when they get the frequently asked questions, how about the should ask questions? How about the questions that go deeper than if someone knew to ask these questions? That would be like the aha moment like their gate goes way past the surface. And if you then have 10 and 10 as an example, you’ve got 20 pieces of content that you can now go Okay, frequently asked question number one, how would I answer that? Let me write down two or three bullet points, ask question number four, let me write down two or three bullet points. And then from there, you’re teaching your talk, your content can come, but I think people don’t think in those terms. Have you heard that? Or is that does that seem like something that you have seen working with your clients as well? 

Michael Greenberg  17:27  

Not particularly. But the clients that we work with. We’ve got two sides to our business, where one we as Call For Content will come in and do the full end to end content marketing for a client. And then we also sell white label services and the end to end stuff that we do. The people that we work within the budgets that we work with, they know they’re an expert when they’re coming to us. Yeah. 

Mike Saunders  18:04  

Super Well, hey, listen, we’ve heard a lot at night, we didn’t even touch on how to promote and expand. So I’ll kind of leave that as a cliffhanger to say, if someone would be interested in working with you, talking with you, and learning more. What’s the best way that they can reach out and connect with you?

Michael Greenberg  18:19  

So I offer free office hours to anyone who wants to book them and chat with me. You can go to, and we’ve got a little chat widget that will let you book directly with me for office hours. And you can shoot me an email at Or if you want to listen to me talk, you can find my podcast at, but really the chat widget. It’ll let you book for office hours, and that’s the best way to speak with me directly. And ask me anything you’d like. I am an open book.

Mike Saunders  19:04  

Perfect. Well, Michael, thank you so much for coming on is really great to chat with you today.

Michael Greenberg  19:09  

Yeah, likewise,